Forum Replies Created
Hi Alison
This is such great news & you have done such a wonderful job with Cody – I confess I am the same as you (yeah, I know, despite my normal is normal is normal comment)- any dip in PCV of more than 4-5 points deserves a recheck to ease my worried mind! The TP (total protein) figure helps determine how hydrated/dehydrated they are, but we still like to make sure all is well. So listen here Cody, no more bobbles, however slight. We want a nice smooth bobble free run from now on, so Says Auntie Sheena, Worzel & Ollie xxx
Liposomal clodronate studies:
From as early as 2006!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16982332
http://www.exphem.org/article/S0301-472X(06)00331-6/abstract?cc=y=
Says:
Five dogs with spontaneous IMHA were treated once with liposomal clodronate at the 0.5 ml/kg dose. Though erythrocyte clearance was not completely blocked, the drug was well-tolerated and all 5 dogs survived to leave the hospital. These studies suggest that liposomal clodronate may be an effective agent for temporary suppression of erythrocyte destruction in IMHA. Additional studies, including evaluation of higher doses of liposomal clodronate, are warranted in dogs with spontaneous IMHA.
Which in plain English means it stops red cell destruction, which is Louis main problem.
See also
http://www.avsg.net/files/7614/0511/6749/ImmuneMediatedHemolyticAnemiaHeatherMineoDVMDACVECC.pdf
Which says
“Liposome-Encapsulated Clodronate
This investigational drug is a liposome-encapsulated bisphosphonate. Phagocytosis of the liposomes by macrophages in the liver and spleen leads to rapid apoptosis of the macrophages. This results in a rapid reduction in red cell opsonization and allows time for additional drugs to act against other arms of the immune system. The effects of clodronate last approximately one week and a pilot study at CSU showed improved survival times in dogs treated at low doses in combination with prednisone, azathioprine and heparin.”
There is also mention of leflunomide in that paper.
Quote on page 39 leflunomide section:
“Most of the dogs had mild to
moderate disease or partial response to conventional
therapy, affording sufficient time for
leflunomide to exert its immunosuppressive
effects”
– which makes me think it will take longer than some other drugs.
Hang on in there Karyn!
Love Sheena xxxxx
Hi Karyn
Sorry to hear about the drop, but it really is too early for the drug (leflunomide) to have worked in my opinion – going to have a look & see if I can find out more.
YES! I mentioned the liposomal clodronate to you in the 25th July message I sent about all the other drugs available – absolutely worth a try. I came across a study on this a while back – hence I mentioned it to you & it sounds good as an adjunct to therapy for sure.
If Louis was human, the hospital would just keep transfusing until a solution was found. Why should our dogs be treated any differently? Well done you for keeping going – Louis is not giving up, so why should anyone else?
I will get back to you with more info on the study.
Much love always
Sheena xxxxx
Message from Karyn who is unable to post:
I’ve just got back from Rutland, it’s funny how we get to know our dogs so well, that they can almost speak to us.
Louis’s PCV has dropped to 13%, he is currently waiting for a blood transfusion, much to the dismay of Stefano, I think he wants us to call it at day now, because nothing is working.
One thing that has really helped us is Louis’s blog, because I have captured every single minute of this terrible journey, it has allowed us to track back what happens just before his PCV drops, and the common theme is the introduction of a new immune suppressant other than prednisolone.
So we have been proven right yet again, the introduction of his latest drug has caused another crash in PCV. He paws and legs have also started to swell, so he’s really found it hard to get about.
We have pushed Stefano into giving him another blood transfusion, for a number of reasons.
1) Louis is still eating, and interested in food, so much so he pinches Olga’s when she’s not looking.
2) His stomach is fine, he has normal poops.
3) He is still following us around the house when we go into another room.
4) He’s drinking well.
5) When we take him out for a wander around he still carries and chew’s his Frisbee.
6) He’s put weight on.
Stefano mentioned a paper he had found on the internet and has done some research on a drug called Liposomal Clodronate. He explained that this drug has been used on dogs with AIHA, in a small trail and it’s had good results BUT.. and there’s always a but… he said in his opinion there hasn’t been enough trials done for it to be considered as a treatment in the UK. It can only be sourced from USA, and that means import and medical certificates, which all take time.
Which is where I jumped in and said a blood transfusion will buy him time, for you to do your research and to find out if and how we can get our hands on this stuff.
I asked what it does and he said it acts like a Trojan horse to infiltrate the body, and it latches onto the cells that are killing his red blood cells and destroys them, he said the only thing that is causing him real concern is that all of the dogs in the trials had spleens and Louis doesn’t. There was a long silence in the room at this point.
Without wanting to sound like we are using Louis as a ‘test case’ I said “None of the normal immune suppressants, like cyclosporine, mycophenolate etc have worked, so as long as you can assure us that Louis isn’t in any pain then I think we should at least try to see if we can actually get hold of the stuff. Stefano said Louis isn’t in pain, he is just finding it difficult to get about, he said he is breathless and will probably feel dizzy, but his’s not in pain.
I know we keep saying this is his last chance, but we have come so far I am not ready to give up, not that we could ever be accused of giving up but you know what I mean.
If anyone has heard of this drug Liposomal Clodronate then please let me know.
Hopefully I can pick him up later tonight after his transfusion, at least it will keep the cost down a bit.
Love Karyn
xx
Hi there – so sorry to hear how difficult it has all been. I did manage to persuade my vet to try Dr Dodds protocol, and that is in Shropshire. So do keep going, and try to persuade them that she has a great deal of expertise and has helped save so many dogs from this disease. If they are still digging their toes in, try to get them to explain what their protocol is, and why they are following it….. get them to give you reasons. It’s no help to you if they refuse to consider anything else, with no reason behind it – and it’s no help to Louis. Please keep us informed. Vets can be like doctors….. blinkered.
Hope to hear that he is improving
Lynda
Hi Karyn – seems like such a rollercoaster. I do hope you and Louis (and your husband!) are all doing OK. Keep thinking of you. It’s such a vile disease. Please keep us all updated and tell Louis to keep on fighting. Every tiny little improvement matters. We are all rooting for you guys
Lynda
Hi Karyn – I haven’t posted on here for quite a while, but do read the posts. I am so sorry to hear about Louis. This is a truly awful disease and anyone who has been on this website knows that it is a dreadful roller coaster. I notice that you took him to Liverpool, which means you are in the north west. If you need someone else to talk to directly who is in the area, I live in NE Shropshire – in case it helps to speak directly to someone. I don’t have the experience of some of the others on this site with the drugs etc but I have lived through the horrors of this disease. My email is (deleted for security by Sheena) – I can give you my phone number on that if you do. You are more than welcome to call/visit if it’s not too far, for a bit of moral support
Lynda Birke