Forum Replies Created
Hi Amber
Thanks for the other information. I think part of the problem is that the usual protocol for drug reduction hasn’t been followed – I suspect your vet does not have any experience with treating this disease successfully – that is NOT unusual! Normally, we wait until our dogs are stable & in normal ranges for a couple of weeks, then we slowly reduce the prednisone FIRST. The atopica or azathioprine or whatever the long acting immunosuppressant used should stay the same until you reach the minimum dose of prednisone required – usually this is none at all, although a few dogs require a small dose to keep them stable.
This is what we normally do:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/prednisone-dose-reduction/
There is good reason to do this. Prednisone is the first line form of immunosuppressant which is used until the second longer acting immunosuppressant has taken effect & our pet reaches normal values. Prednisone has side effects & eats them up, so we then need to get them off that drug by slowly reducing it. The side effects can be minimised by giving Denamarin (contains milk thistle AND blood building goodies) to protect the liver & by feeding high protein, low fat diet, to protect the pancreas too. Muscle wasting is unavoidable & it ravages them – this again is the prednisone, so we need to reduce it to the bare minimum.
I agree with Brigitte – I like holistic medicine, but it can only be used as “add-ons” to the conventional treatment & we all need to be very careful what we give our pets with IMHA. Many supplements (and drugs) can affect this disease in a negative way – all supplements are drugs really!
So, what I’m saying is that the cyclo is not the problem here – it’s the prednisone. I’m sure the higher dose of cyclosporine – i.e. the correct dose for Dean’s weight, regular PCV tests, get into normal ranges, then reduce the prednisone slowly should put you back on track.
Love Sheena xxxx
Hello Amber,
I am sorry your Dean is not well and you are going through all these health issues with him for 3 months now. In order to help you more and advise you on what to do, it would be important to know more about Dean. What are his latest blood results, what medications is he on, his weight, age, breed, any supplements. I would not worry about a transfusion unless his PCV is going down to at least 15%.
I am a big fan of holistic and TCM. However with this disease I believe that TCM can only be complimentary. Some of the herbs given could also totally work against what you are trying to achieve. For example many herbs boost the immune system, while you are actually suppressing it to stop the body from attacking the red blood cells. This is also the case with Bio Algae. This product has come up here many, many times and in my opinion (and all of the other moderators) it gives you false hope and is very expensive. There are no studies that it helps with AIHA/IMHA. It claims to boost the immune system, something you want to avoid at all cost. There are many herbs that help with this disease, one of them is milk thistle. It helps the liver to detoxify and keep up with all the heavy duty medications that these dogs need to survive. I know it is hard to see all the side effects of the drugs, but in the long run they will save Dean’s life. It would be good to know if you have reduced the drugs (prednisone) and maybe that happened too fast? You could download Dean’s latest blood results under Urgent Advice. The moderators will get this in their emails can have a look at it and hopefully advise you.
I don’t say don’t go to a TCM vet but please have the two vet’s work together so they are both aware what is happening. Please do not buy Bio Algae it is money down the drain. If you want the best of the best, consult with Dr. Dodds at hemopet. You find all the information under Second Chance Resources. You can get a detailed consultation from a vet that has treated this disease successfully for many years for a reasonable fee.
Best wishes,
Brigitte
Hi Amber
Glad you’ve found our site – I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through this with Dean. We are committed to giving you only the proven facts on here, so forgive me for being blunt. I’m afraid we are unable to find any proof or clinical trials to show that this Bio-Algae product works for our IMHA pets – we have looked at this in detail, I assure you. As IMHA is an auto-immune disease, it is certainly not advisable to stimulate the immune system with this kind of product. I would advise against using it most strongly. I would never use it for my dog.
If you can provide us with more information about Dean, we will gladly help you with the conventional treatment options. Tell us exactly what happened, what drugs he was given at diagnosis & what he is taking currently. There is no reason why Dean cannot make a full recovery & be back to normal health with the right care. You would be very welcome to join us – I hope you will!
Sheena
Hi Matt
I’m not on one side or the other for the Dasuquin, but I had to point this out – this is a minor worry in my opinion. The only reason I remembered reading something was because I was looking around for something for my non-IMHA dog – he has arthritis/joint issues & low platelets (naturally for his breed). That’s really why it’s always best to talk to the vets – if they are all aware & are happy, I doubt if it’s a problem. But any drug & any supplement can affect this disease, so best to be sure. I am more concerned with getting Slaton pumping out those lovely red cells – hence thyroid, B12 ideas for now.
Is Slaton’s bloating mainly abdominal? We find our dogs get bloated round the middle & their muscles atrophy so they become like a barrel with stick legs. I really would add the Denamarin – as far as I know, if it’s called Denamarin, it’s exactly the same wherever you buy it as it is a manufacturer’s product name. Some people get things from Costco – that could be a cheaper option?
Smelly wind is also a “usual” symptom – Worzel was a real stinker – gas mask needed at times! Again, please put her back on the sucralfate – I rate it as the best tummy protection. It must be given 2 hours before or 2 hours after any medications, otherwise it prevents their absorption. You could also try Dr Dodds liver cleansing diet
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/nutrition-resources/#!mg_ld=13905
If you think Slaton is getting worse, please get her checked at the vets – I am concerned you think she’s uncomfortable. This could be just tummy ache, in which case the sucralfate should help, but it could also be the start of pancreatitis. The drugs make them more prone to this. Have a look at this explanation:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/pancreatitis/
It’s easily diagnosed & treated if caught early on, but you need to keep an eye on her. If her liver is getting overworked (high liver enzymes), that could also make her feel uncomfortable – so Denamarin is the best thing for that again.
Hi Matt – we were typing at the same time – thanks for the info on the drugs etc. Glad you are adding Petinic, but I think the Denamarin is absolutely essential with this disease. Have you stopped the sucralfate now?
Sorry to tell you Dasuquin has some side effects (see link below) & it is not recommend when dogs are on anti-coagulents (e.g. aspirin), so I would discuss this with your vet:
http://www.veterinaryplace.com/dog-medicine/dasuquin-for-dogs/
How is Slaton feeling in herself now? That’s the most important question of all!
Sheena x
Hi Matt
A big welcome – so glad you’ve found us. I’ve had a good read through what’s happened. What a long journey! This is such a complicated disease & my dog wasn’t diagnosed for months either – but we got there in the end. I am so glad the mycophenolate has been dropped – in one particular trial, most dogs had to stop it because of the terrible stomach issues = diarrhoea/vomiting. Atopica (cyclosporine) is the preferred drug for this disease anyway – so good news on that. Of course, it takes time to work though.
I can see no reason for exploratory surgery – that would be pointless in my view.
One thing struck me in the pathologist’s report – the mention of spicules – have a read of this:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/spiculated-spike-cell/
I assume you’ve not had a thyroid panel done as it’s not in the report. It is well worth doing as hypothyroidism (yes – another but more common auto-immune disease!) inhibits red blood cells production – and that is a cause of spiculated cells. Thyroxine is recommended as part of the treatment protocol for this disease as it encourages erythropoeisis (red blood cell production). I would recommend you get this test done as soon as possible. On our site, you can go here:
http://www.hemopet.org/hemolife-diagnostics/veterinary-thyroid-testing.html
Some dogs don’t start to recover very well until thyroxine is added in to the treatment – it can make a huge difference, even to those who are not hypothyroid. Dr Dodds of Hemopet will always recommend it’s use regardless.
Could I also recommend getting a Vitamin B12 test – I would recommend adding in Denamarin immediately – it provides red cell building blocks & helps protect the liver from all these drugs too. If the B12 test comes back low, you can get injections. It may be that food is not being absorbed adequately, which won’t help on the nutrient front. We have had dogs on here with anaemia due to malabsorption, often due to overgrowth of bad bacteria, so again worth checking his level.
The great news is that Slaton is mildly regenerative – but I know you want to get him highly regenerative!
So for now, Vitamin B12 test & thyroid panel would be a good start. Hope this helps a bit – don’t hesitate to ask about anything you want to.
Sheena, Worzel & Ollie x