Split: Split: For Hope and Steve – Page 4

Keymaster

Hi Hope. The anal glands – as I was reading your post, it was my thought and then I saw Mary’s post. Great catching that Mary!! I too think that might be the culprit. Cocker spaniels are also prone to clogged anal glands, although, so far no problem with Sadie. But my daughter has Sophie, Sadie’s littermate sister, and she has had problems on and off. When she takes Sophie to be groomed, they express the anal sacks and that seems to work. But you said you have had that done, right? Sometimes they miss it. It’s tricky getting to it and it also really stinks when they express them. I know this sounds horrid, but they can show you how to do it, if you are willing to – good practice for upcoming med school! Or not.

Boy or boy – this tech needs to work somewhere else and NOT give advise. I would tell your vet what he told you because he is totally wrong and seriously dangerous. And you said he did not show much compassion to begin with – not good either. Poor Steve. So glad you stuck to your good senses and ignored him, but like Sheena said, what if you were one of those fur parents that think what is advised is gospel?! Wow – this is really scary.

About the milk thistle and SAM-e. I’m SO glad you got the human grade. There are just too many ‘other’ things in the pet forms that I don’t think are good. When it’s a pure (or pure as possible) form, and human grade, it keeps it simple.

I just read what Sheena sent you and it says to give one hour before or two hours after eating, to give on an empty stomach (good article Sheena!). Then I looked at the Denamarin website – exact same thing. BUT, contrary to this, I put both in Sadie’s food and just after eating, I give her the prednisone and her anti-clotting. She has such a sensitive tummy that I even had to start giving Atopica (when she was on a high doses) WITH food, which is totally contrary to what is typically done also. Atopica just messed with Sadie (still does, even on the low 10mg every five days dose), so her vet said change the Atopica WITH food and the prednisone two hours later. We did that and it helped. Now that we’ve dropped the Atopica to every 5 days (10mg), I’ve gone back to giving the prednisone after eating. Her PCV’s still went up and her liver values have been secure. But you may want to adhere to the proper advice and give one hour before or two hours after eating. And as Sheena and Vally have mentioned too, the milk thistle CAN cause loose stools. But as messed up as Sadie’s tummy can get, it has not bothered her unless I get over zealous and put say, 22 drops instead of the usual 18 – that can get her, not always, but can. I know people that give much, much more and their dogs do great. Not Sadie, less works – I stick with that. And like I said, I calculated her dosage to the Denamarin dosage she was taking prior. She has a CBC every month and she has done well. There were numbers that were high, but it was drug induced (pred/cyclo) and as we have weaned, she’s within normal on all her blood work, so far.

I would definitely ask though. It’s always a good measure to be in sync with your vet on all you are doing and giving Steve, right? Just not that vet tech!! ;)

Yes, we need a picture of your little bull dog, as Vally said. Cute Vally.

Love to you and Steve – keep up the AWESOME work and keep reading/studying!!! Dr. Hope – good ring to that. :)

XO Linda and Sadie

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Keymaster

Hi Hope. Yes, the milk thistle I use from HerbPharm is with alcohol, which supposedly helps with the absorption. This is the one that Callie Kennedy recommended to me and used with her cocker spaniel, Billy. He has since passed away, not due to AIHA, but he had other complications from a horrible life prior to being owned and loved by Callie. Callie also uses the CellFood SAM-e, liquid. Together, they are what you are giving with the Denamarin. My problem with the Denamarin is that they will not list the inert ingredients. And I have a sneaking suspicion that the beautiful bright blue color has to be in there somewhere! They refuse to give out the additional ingredients and are not bound to legally. It’s pet stuff compared to human stuff. The regulations are way too relaxed. Hence, human grade and I’m OCD too – it just makes more sense to me knowing exactly what I’m giving Sadie.

Yes, like I said, I give Sadie her anti-clotting Clopidogrel, which is generic human Plavix. Although, from what I have read, most dogs given aspirin. Sadie was put on Clopidogrel because her vet had just had a stroke and was on Plavix. He had read that many of the vet schools were starting to give dogs Plavix when on high doses of drugs, such as in AIHA and the necessary prednisone. He had several consultations with some specialty vets at University of FL and here at Blue Pearl and together we decided together to give Sadie the Clopidogrel (1/2 of 75mg tab daily). I give her this with her prednisone after eating now.

Right or not right, Sadie gets her AM food with milk thistle, SAM-e and PetTinic, and then the Clopidogrel and the prednisone, immediately after, in (duck/allergy) a piece of a pill pockets (enough to cover pill). Yum, hands smell wonderful after these oily, stinky delights! Later in the day, I give her the 1/2 tab of Pepcid in another (duck/allergy) piece of a pill pocket. So, she’s down to three (3) pills daily now. After a year and a half – it’s time. :)

So, I think you’re okay. I don’t think there is any interaction between the milk thistle or SAM-e or PetTinic (which I am not sure if you’re using), but I’m not 100% sure. Anyone?

And if someone said to wait to give the aspirin an hour after eating, then I’m totally off, as I have done the above since day one. Actually, I have always been under the impression that aspirin should be given with food so it does not irritate the stomach. I read this too:

http://dogarthritisaspirin.com/

I still get so scared that I’m hurting Sadie more than helping. You are not alone. And I’ve been doing this for so long, I should know. But Sadie has been so different with so many of her meds, due to her tummy and bowels. Even before the AIHA, she had issues and this has made it all so much worse. Although, I will say that since weaning her and watching closely everything she eats, keeping it few and simple, she has done 75% better. When I slip up and give in to her begging – she pays. Even the tiniest piece of banana will set her off. Crazy.

Sadie also had Horner’s Syndrome, which is like palsy in humans. I had never heard of that either and it’s not very common. It was pretty bad. She had it on one side of her face and the day it left that side, the next day it affected her other side. We went through that for many, many months. We did eye ointments 4-5 times a day so her eyes wouldn’t dry out and she couldn’t chew well on the affected side. That’s why we weaned (are weaning still) the Atopica. From what I have found out, this has happened with several AIHA cockers on Atopica. BUT, her PCV went up too, so it was the good with the bad. The right side of her jowl still sags a bit, but she’s greatly improved.

Steve’s meds/supplements – you’re doing a wonderful job!! It’s just figuring out what’s right for Steve – that’s a huge hurdle in itself. You are well on your way with that!! :)

Love and hugs, Linda & Sadie

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