snoopy

[jill]

Hi everyone Snoopy is doing well, we have had vet appointment and his blood level is normal now so we are starting to reduce the predonisilone, to 20mg in morning and 15mg in evening,from the previous dose of 25mg morning and evening. I am so grateful to Sheena for doing the charts (and being there for me, ) which make it very clear, each dose I will be ticking off as I go, im hoping Snoppy s blood level will remain stable, and I will constantly be checking gums .im a bit nervous as his been on the same dose a long time now.His direah has gone and his poo is so much better. He is a bit lethargic at the moment but im hoping his energy will be returning as the predonisilone dose goes down?Snoopy has lost weight about 5 kilos so i have bought some lean mince to give him as his lost weight , to help build him up? hope you and your doggies are all well, thanks to everyone for all your help love Jill & Snoopy xxxx

[jill]

Hi everyone, just updateing on Snoopy, he is doing well, its been 2 weeks on the reduced level of 20mg morning and 15mg evenng,( of the predon),and we have just seen a different vet that first diagnosed Snoopy and done a had full blood test , CBC? on which we are waiting results to be e mailed to us.Then if all ok we can carry on reducing. This vet has been fine with me wanting to go by Sheenas charts ,although he suggested we stop the Azthiroporine once I have run out of them while still reducing predon? im sure Sheena has told me not to do this? We have also ordered some royal canine to try as think it might be better than hills id food that Snoopys on.Hes actually put on weight ive been giving him fresh turkey everyday to help build him up as last vet apt he had lost weight. Snoopy is getting better, hes actually running tothe front door now when postman comes and barking at him, which I used to tell him off for, but now I love it and cant help smiling! he is still larthigic inbetween times of being normal and we still go for short walks only, but he is getting there, its a long road and we need to be patient, Many thanks to all the support and advice from everyone on this site, hope your doggies are doing well love and hugs from Jill and Snoopy xxxx

[Sheena]

Hiya Jill

Just looked at the test results – thank you – this is excellent – go for the next reduction right now!

Note at the bottom the haematologist said CBC should be done regularly, as we always suggest. There is no sign of haemolysis at all now – no mention of spherocytes any more – GREAT!

That HCT of 47.4 (almost the same thing as PCV) is wonderful – up from 42 – he’s on the up! And his weight is better too – you are doing one brilliant job, Jill – the best Mum possible. I know how much you love him & will do anything to get him better.

Is there any way you can up the milk thistle dose a bit? His liver enzymes are slightly high which is common on these drugs, so don’t worry. I’m very surprised they are not higher actually (Worzel’s went really high), but I think you added the milk thistle nice & early. If you have scope for a bit more, that would be good. There are a few things not related to blood cells a little out of range. We need to keep an eye on the bile acids & if it gets out of hand, maybe suggest adding Ursodiol. Worzel had similar results at this dose of pred, but they soon came down to more normal levels when we dropped the pred down. Fingers crossed, that will happen for your lovely Snoopy too. Unfortunately these drugs have side effects we have to “live” with as the drugs save their lives. These things generally resolve over time whilst reducing.

And dropping the azathioprine would be very risky in my opinion – all our information on the site tells you how to reduce safely & this is not part of the plan. His pancreatic enzymes are perfectly normal, so it’s not affecting that as all – GREAT news. If the azathioprine was causing him problems, of course we would have to re-think. That is why we need to see a full blood count & the haematologist’s comments at the bottom. We always tell everyone to get the prednisolone down to zero (that is usually possible) as you know, then start reducing the other drug. If you reduce 2 drugs at the same time & something goes wrong you would not know which drug had caused the drop. It’s too risky. I always remember Dr Dodds telling me & others never to reduce 2 drugs at the same time. The ONLY exception to this would be if the long-acting immuno-suppressant was causing illness – in your case, Snoopy’s doing just fine.

Yippeeee!!!!! We are getting somewhere – your vet has done exactly the right things & sounds much nicer – glad you are seeing someone else now.

Love & hugs, Sheena & the boys xxxxx

[Vally]

Jill, this is wonderful news. Absolutely agree with Sheena about not doing 2 reductions at once.

I’m glad too that you now have a vet who listens to your opinions and worries. No, nobody here is a Vet, and we don’t claim, or pretend, to be Vets. We have just lived this disease day in day out for years. We’ve seen time after time, quick reductions cause problems, my boy was one of them, so we all tend to freak a bit (a lot) when we know something is not right, having experienced the consequences.

Jill you have done a super super job. Snoopy you haven’t done too bad yourself either.

Vally & Bingo
xxx

[jill]

Hi everyone, thankyou so much for all your support , it means a great deal to me. x Snoopy is fine he seems to be a bit more tired and has been a little bit clingy to me?only since this last reduction in the predon, he is now at 15mg in morning and 10mg at nite? im sure it must effect them when they are being weaned off these drugs.Hes really eating well and keeps on for more! his going 2 small walks a day at the mo, Yes new vet does seem nice it was only on the suggestion of coming off the Azathporine that made alarm bells go off in my head as I remembered Sheena telling me this golden rule, she has taught me well! I will be print ing off some info for new vet supporting the gradual weaning off one drug at a time. hope he will then agree with me , as I will be doing it that way and no other! We are due for another blood pcv next week on thirsday so fingers crossed everything stays ok, im still constantly checking gums but so pleased he is doing well, I can actually smile again! hopeing all your doggies are well love and hugs Jill and Snoopy xxxxx

[jill]

PS, I have upped Snoopys milk thistle to a whole capsule a day, half in morning half at night.instead of the 3 quarters of a capsule he was having.

[Sheena]

Hi Jill

Lovely to hear things are going well, Jill. We all sympathise with the lethargy with the drugs & Worzel had withdrawal symptoms big time – not nice for them, but again, we have to get through this bit as well as we can. As long as you are keeping an eye on his gums & he’s not really bad, that is normal for weaning. Of course of you get worried, nip him down the vets for a quick PCV to make sure.

Hoping that milk thistle will help to keep the liver enzymes down – they’re not terrible – believe me we’ve seen a hundred times worse, but I believe it’s worth preventing them going up – prevention is better than cure.

Can anyone else on here tell us what form of azathioprine reduction they did please? The more the merrier, lovely ladies. I know most dogs here had or have cyclosporine, so we are more in the minority, but I know some of you lovely folks have been through this with aza.

Worzel was weaned very slowly, but he was older & had bone marrow failure, rather than what Snoopy has, so I personally think it would be better to go a bit quicker than we did. It is impossible to find a protocol – all vet sites have different suggestions – none of them wrong of course unless it says stop abruptly. That is too risky & would be asking for trouble. I know you know that.

Worzel’s weaning, following the exact instructions of my French specialist in internal medicine (Cornell Uni trained):

Month one – drop one day per week (no pill on a Monday)
Month two – drop 2 days per week (no pills Monday & Friday)
Month three – drop 3 days per week (no pills Monday Thursday & Saturday)
Carry on dropping one more day until they are off it completely – but this took a long time – you get the idea.

It would be easier if we could get 25mg pills, but you can only get 50mg & they are hard to cut up, so we have to stick with the 50mg. So why not chat with your vet when it gets near the time – you can’t start until he’s off the pred anyway so we have time to discuss this. He needs to be off that aza, or as low as dose as needed – probably NONE though – he’s only a young chap!

Maybe you could go for dropping a pill a week every two weeks, or something like that. Let’s see what others have done. I just think Worzel’s protocol is a bit too slow for Snoopy. But stopping it abruptly could cause a relapse. Somewhere sensible in between is the answer.

Love & massive hugs
Sheena & the hounds
xxxxx

[amy]

It sounds like you and Snoopy are doing very well. I just wanted to pass on a bit of information that I learned yesterday. If you feel snoopy still needs help being built up by diet try to find food high in amino acids. Adding turkey is a great start. Also to help with digestions so they can absorb the amino acids properly adding goats milk to their diet will help to balance the bacteria in their digestive tract and aid in proper absorption and digestion of their food. You can often find goats milk frozen but you can get it from most groceries as well. You don’t have to give a lot just a tablespoon or so at every feeding if you only feed once a day start out with 1 Tablespoon and increase up to 2 or 3 over time as to not cause diarrhea. This will help to balance their gut and help their body get all the good stuff they need to heal. Also there is a food called IMMUNITY and you can order online. It has a lot of great stuff to help support healing. Also she added prescription strength fish oil. Coal smells like a can of tuna but if it helps the immune system I will live! Maybe with some nose plugs! :)
Be Well!
Amy & Coal

Here is a link to immunity if you are interested… http://tinyurl.com/hk4cc4o