sassy is relapsing.

[alyssa]

Oh, I’ve also cut all treats and replaced them with canned fruit in water. Pineapple, peaches, pear, or banana – she loved it all. I know sugar would be the concern there, but it’s not aggravating her tummy and when she’s absolutely begging me to feed her more it’s all im comfortable giving right now. I truly wanted to fast her for 24-48 hours to totally rest her pancreas but we agreed she needed food with Pred and she is just way to hungry to do it, she starts to cry around the 9 hour mark (and I still have a few more to go for that test!) so instead I’m feeding her very small meals, 4-5 hours apart with little bits of fruit in between. I’ll need to start trying to feed her normally soon though, she’s probably getting under half of the recommended amount on that bag (4.5 cups a day) – at most she’s getting 2 to 2.5 topped with 2 tablespoons wet food.

[alyssa]

Sheena – they said it was pancreatitis because the snap test came back “strong positive” and in the absence of anything on ultra sounds, X-rays, blood work, black stool (ulcers), then the test said positive. Does the snap test test lipase? Maybe lipase is high only? she did say the snap test could be positive for other reasons, however.

[alyssa]

Argh, I can’t be seen until 10. Oh myyyyy, Sassy is soooo hungry. :( 2 more hours…

I will say when sassy doesn’t eat she’s a totally different dog. She JUMPED on the couch a bit ago with no help. Hasn’t for weeks. She was rolling around on the floor. her belly is flat. it seems like any small feeding bloats it. She’s yawning, and just looks normal. She is VERY stsrving though and it’s so sad. She keeps licking the salt off our arms. Whining quietly. :(

[Sheena]

Hi Alyssa

Linda & Brigitte have both recently been through the scenario of the Snap test being a bit high too, but it was only because the dogs hadn’t been fasted long enough. The next tests done after a starve were normal – they did not have pancreatitis & it was a false scare. A TOTAL fast of 8-12hrs is necessary before the tests. Do not get stressed about this. There is no need to fast them any longer than that. This is really making me think it isn’t pancreatitis – I am crossing everything that it isn’t. If Sassy has not be starved completely for this length of time, the levels might be a bit high. Let’s see what happens. I always take Worzel early so he doesn’t have to go without food too long! He whinges like crazy if he’s hungry.

Don’t forget in normal circumstances you absolutely must give pred & azathioprine with food. I would drop giving her fruit altogether – please only feed her dog food, maybe some green beans chopped up small & the pumpkin. No treats either – just good old fashioned dog food for now. If the Hills is working, stick with it for now. If you have time to cook stuff for her, that would be even better, but I understand completely if you are too busy.

I cannot emphasise how important a good diet is & not adding in things that may upset her tummy. The fruit could be giving her problems. I didn’t know you did this, ot I would have said before, sorry.

Worzel only has 1 x 50 mg azathioprine per week to put my mind at rest – an insurance policy really. It’s my personal choice, not the vets. He probably doesn’t need it, but as his age (at least 14 probably more) I didn’t want to stop it altogether. I’m sure Jean Dodds would agree that most dogs do not need anything at all & there is no reason why Sassy cannot be drug free. Just get her off the pred first, then the second immuno-suppressant (aza or cyclo) next.

Take some dog food to the vets with you, then she can have a small meal when you come out – poor little soul will be really hungry. I think it’s great she is curling up properly now – Worzel always stretched right out with his legs as far apart as possible when he has tummy pain – I know he’s not right if he does that!

I am out this evening, but will check in on you as soon as I get home – in the meantime, don’t worry – we’ll get her sorted out. Good luck at 10am – please ask for the WBCs to be itemised individually (neutrophils, monocytes, lymphocytes, basophils, eosinophils), plus lipase & amylase figures. Thank you!

Love & hugs
Sheena xxxxx

[alyssa]

We are back. I asked about breaking down the WBC but like I thought their test doesn’t; so it was sent off with the lipase test. We’ll have all those results Monday.

She was fasted from 10;30pm to 10:30am for the lipase test.

fruit; I actually just started this two days ago along with the new I/D food. So her good results have been while eating small bits of fruit. So it definitely wasn’t contributing to her attacks before. But I can stop if you really think I should.

I’m going to move Azathioprine to 5pm; instead of giving pred & Aza together. maybe processing both at once was too much? I don’t know.

[Brigitte]

Hi Alyssa,
I just wanted to tell you about my scary “pancreatitis” experience with my non AIHA poodle Enzo, maybe there is something in the story that could help you. Enzo has always been a very fussy eater and is very lean, some people consider him skinny. He was especially fussy in the morning. He got two meals a day and is fed raw. At our last vet visit he got a full CBC and chem screen. The results came back with high lipase and amylase, the pathologist indicated chronic pancreatitis. My vet was not too worried because Enzo had a full breakfast of raw beef before the test. Me, always the worry ward (after having a AIHA dog, that is happening to all of us) wanted to repeat the test on an empty stomach. Enzo was fasted for 10 hours and the test came back completely normal.
One thing that Patrice explained to me once is that, when dogs are very hungry (fasted too long) they produce more stomach acid . That gives them something like heart burn and it could be that that is the reason Enzo has no appetite in the morning. So I started to give him a small amount of food just before going to bed between 11-12 pm. This seems to have made a huge difference!
I definitely would not switch an AIHA dog over to raw food, but if you find the time I would give Dr. Dodds liver cleansing diet a try.
http://www.nutriscan.org/knowledge-center/cleansing-diets.html?utm_source=tumblr&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=20121211%20kidney
Instead of fish you can use lean chicken or turkey. For treats I would not use fruit. My guess is that Sassy liked it so much because she was starving. As Sheena has said I would rather go with cooked veggies as treats or dried liver. Dogs can’t really process raw veggies unless they are finely ground. So for treats cooked is better. I don’t think the fruit would do any harm, but the canned could be too sugary.
I hope that test will be showing no pancreatitis, but just in case and so you have something to do over the weekend:) here is great info about pancreatitis from Mary Strauss:
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjpancreatitis.html

Best wishes,
Brigitte

[alyssa]

The fruit is canned, but it’s in 100% juice with no added sugar and I also rince it. The amount I’ve been giving is really minuscule, if you recall what canned pineapple chunks look at – she gets maybe 8 of those thru out the day. It was my thinking that the canned ones would be digested well and they are significantly softer than fresh fruit and I’ve not saw any in her stool which I check every time (however I am seeing the carrots and other veggies from the canned Hills I/D food and it’s bothering me. When I home cooked I never saw unprocessed veggies in her stool.)
But I’ve made sure to get no sugar added and rince off the juice. Anyway, if it’s controversial I will stop and find something else; just wanted to be clear I wasn’t giving it during her attacks so it’s not related, and I’m not giving her the syrupy sugar kind!

I increased Sassys food today by a tiny amount, instead of filling her 1/2 cup scooper up to 3/4 full I filled it all the way so a full half cup. She had that a few times and I also have her an extra meal that I had cut out days ago to rest her pancreas. So far so good!

She jumped in the couch with me around 4 AM. I’m mentioning this because it’s been about 4 weeks since she did this. She’s been getting in the couch the last 2 days or so but ONLY in the morning when she was starving and it was making her hyperactive to please us for food, I think. The 4am jump however was shortly after eating. I sat down and got comfy and she started looking at me with her ears up and I recognized that look at I patted beside me and she jumped up with no hesitation and got up here with me to sleep. I was so very happy! Now she’s laying her snoring and kicking the crap out of me in her sleep. :)

Something has definitely changed in the last 2-3 days, for the better. I’m very hopeful now her lipase test will be okay, and if it was pancreatitis it’s under control and we can continue without major risky changes to her meds. I was SO stressed out worrying how that was going to effect her.

Could the symptoms I describe really have been just tummy aches? Bad enough that the vet wanted X-rays when she saw it happening? I’m reluctant to believe it, but I’ve had some bad stomach aches before. But Sassys pain tolerance is so much higher.

[alyssa]

Also, I don’t mind home cooking for sassy AT ALL and have been doing it the whole time. We had green beans ready to go for her, we’d make 2 days worth to store in the fridge; frozen green beans lightly steamed and ran thru the food processor. I never saw any in her stool so she digested it well. We also boiled 1.5 days worth of chicken at a time, just plain skinless chicken breast. We would top her food with just a few pieces of shredded chicken. The homemade food was veggies, (rotated between these veggies: sweet potato, green beans, squash, kale, carrots, collard greens, celery,) steamed and processed, eggs, and ground turkey – lean turkey, drained, rinsed, all excess grease removed. I would make about a weeks worth and freeze individual days worth.

I monitored her stool closely on this food and I never saw a single piece of undigested food. This mixture was more veggie than meat as it was fed with her expensive dog food as a supplement to fill her up without a lot of added fat or calories. She would get a few scoops on top of something like Wellness core grain free low fat, which I believe was only 10% fat. I ceased feeding the homemade when all of this started, but nothing seemed to work until I switched to that I/D food. Which, I’m going to be honest, is horrendous nutritionally and I do not want to feed his forever :( the first few ingredients are things like whole corn, corn starch, and some other corn item. it’s awful. I’m hesitant to try home cooked anything again,’or introduce anything but a few fruit / veg treats inbetween meals at this time.