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- New to AIHA, dog in trouble
Rick, I’ve got several interactions coming up with the drugs too – these are people interactions but can anyone help with this:
Prednisolone – with food – DO NOT take with Cyclosporine (increases level/effect pred), Plavix (pred increases level/effect of Plavix) or Sulcrate. Can be taken with Metoclopramide and Omeprazole.
Cyclosporine – without food – DO NOT take with any of the other drugs. Omeprazole decreases level/effect of cyclosporine. Cyclo increases level/effect of pred. Cyclo decreases level/effect of Plavix. Metoclopramide increases levels/effect of cyclo.
Plavix – can be taken with metoclopramide. DO NOT take with the others.
Sucralfate – DO NOT take with any of the drugs as it stops absorption.
I know it’s really hard to juggle all these medicines. I’m thinking something along the lines of:
6am – Cyclosporine
7am – Prednisolone, Metoclorapramide, Omeprazole (with food)
9am – Sucralfate (if doing twice a day)
5pm – Plavix
6pm – Prednisolone (with food)
8pm – Cyclosporine
10pm – Sucralfate
Can anyone see a problem? This is, of course, assuming you can do those sorts of times – workwise etc.
Regards, Vally
Vally,
I think it would be safe to set aside cautions that apply to giving meds to humans, canines are different enough. This schedule looks pretty good to me.
Using some of these drugs together is a pretty standard protocol at most veterinary clinics. Dr. Dodds’ literature notes successfully utilizing both prednisone and cyclosporine in a dog during the same treatment period. And because of how they need to be taken, one with food, the other without, pretty much excludes them being in the stomach at the same time.
The most important consideration is making sure that prednisone is given with food to try to avoid ulcers. And second would be to attempt to protect the stomach at all times in case it does happen. I used an acid preventer 1 hour before meals in addition to the sucralfate on the overnight fast. This was critical because I was trying to prevent other secondary illnesses that would have reduced Chance’s ability to survive. I remind myself sometimes about the little dog on vetnet whose stomach hurt so bad from ulcers that she ate a whole bunch of socks. She lost her life in surgery when the vet was trying to remove those socks. That really hit me hard and I will not forget that.
Cyclosporine, a fungus, really needs a special environment to be absorbed properly and that is an empty stomach.
Sucralfate is really just a mucous goop that by its very nature coats the mucosa of the stomach as a protective barrier. It’s OTC cousin slippery elm behaves exactly the same way. Nothing is going to get past it!
I had a rough time with Chance’s med schedule. In addition to not making any red blood cells he was also not making white blood cells either (Expect he was making those evil T-cell lymphocytes.)
Because he was at great risk of opportunistic infections all the time he had to be on antibiotics constantly. So I had to try to fit those into his schedule as well. And then there was the Soloxine, can only be given without food.
Mark works days and I work nights. If it weren’t for him putting in his 100% effort and helping dose Chance, this would not have worked. Even then, I had to give up a ton of sleep to make sure he got his meds at the right time and to make sure he got out to pee all the time. I often leave Mark’s contribution out but I can tell you, despite the fact he didn’t understand much of what I was doing, he never once questioned me and stayed with the plan. Chance survived because he worked so hard. When I would get home at 1am, Mark was always asleep on the couch next to Chance.
I too slept for months on the couch and would wake up three times during my “night” to give him meds. I gave them “breakfast” at 12 noon so, from when Mark left at 7am until 12am, there were 5 hours to dose meds. Mark started with the Soloxine at around 5-6 am. I would get up three times between 7 and 12 to give him his Atopica, antibiotic and later his pepcid. Before I left for work he would get supplements and then Mark started giving more meds the second he walked in the door at 6pm. We kept a meds chart in the kitchen, it was the only way to stay sane.
It’s a very hard job. Owners provide the most important part, the nursing care.
my best
patrice
Patrice
What a terribly sad story about the socks – that brought tears – it highlights what importance we must give to stomach protection. I too saw how much Worzel was suffering with his sore stomach with the doxycyline (very importantly without food & a vital part of his treatment) & the pred (even though it was with food) – it’s terrible. He was lying on the floor stretched out as far as he could & I rubbed his poor tummy for him. The sucralfate was added & that was what stopped it hurting almost immediately, without doubt.
Rick
Our sleep goes out the window with this disease. Vally has been given a hard task here to get a schedule & I think she’s done a great job. Yes Vally 3pm metoclopramide, then 11pm. I would personally give the last dose of sucralfate as the very last thing at night (midnight or 1 am ), at least an hour after everything else, but preferably 2 hours if possible, but that makes a very late night, plus an early morning!
I am so pleased Brandy is feeling much better – maybe she’ll be able to stop the metoclopramide soon is she’s eating OK & that will be one less drug to take off that tricky schedule. Take care & sending you all our best wishes
Sheena, Worzel & Ollie
Okay, I have taken all the suggestions (thanks Vally for the worksheet) and worked them into my schedule. I have several holes during the day where someone will be with Brandy to let her pee but cannot give meds. I have also accounted that she goes to bed around 10pm and really doesn’t like to be disturbed.
5.30am Cyclosporine
6.30am Prednisolone (with food)
6.30am Metoclorapramide (with food)
9.00am Sucralfate
1.00pm Metoclorapramide
5.00pm Prednisolone (with food)
6.00pm Cyclosporine
9.00pm Sucralfate
10.00pm Metoclorapramide
10.00pm Omeprazole
11.00pm Plavix
I discussed these with her vet today and he is happy with the spacing, but I would certainly consider any additional suggestions.
She woke up this morning quite a bit more lethargic than last night and wasn’t particularly happy to eat her meals. I had an appt for PCV check today anyways but had prepared myself for a possible bad number. Nope.
PCV = 34% with no sign of hemolysis :)
Was 26% (in-house) 2 days ago.
I also caught her urine and it is clear yellow – no sign of the brown tinge that was present last week.
So her stomach is still not really happy. Not really surprising with the switch to oral meds. Hopefully the re-addition of Sulcrate will help.
If it were really bad she wouldn’t eat at all so I will keep tracking it, of course.
Rick, what a brilliant PCV. Good work Brandy!!!
I know a lot of dogs seem to have trouble with the cyclosporine upsetting their stomachs too, so it could be that. See how Brandy goes. I think with most dogs it does settle down but I know Linda had a lot of trouble with her Sadie and changed it to dosing with food. I believe another thing you can do is freeze the capsule for 30 minutes before dosing. That might be a bit hard for your first dose. That’s if it is the cyclosporine, but it is known for causing stomach upsets.
I found Bingo was a zombie the whole time he was on the higher dose of prednisolone. Just slept and slept.
Love Vally & Bingo
Hi Rick, so glad to hear how well Brandy is doing. Our vet has us keep the cyclosporine in the freezer to reduce tummy upset. Might be worth asking your vet if it’s worth a try.
sending you and Brandy love and hugs –
tamara and ashki
Ps if you’re worried that keeping the cyclo in the freezer will interfere with effectiveness, when Ashki was not responding to treatment we tested serum cyclo levels and they were within the ideal limits.
Tamara and Ashki