Reduced red blood count and high white blood count they’re staying its cancer

[Patrice]

Mel,
I think Vally and I both know how you feel, we’ve been there. It is so frustrating and it is especially panicky when you don’t know why everything is happening. We do want to help you understand but time is limited for you to grasp all of this at once.

The most important thing is that you try to make decisions based on facts, not on your emotions. You want to do something “anything” to help and that makes you susceptible to making wrong choices. Please ask us for help when you are making big decisions. Don’t go surfing the internet looking for miracle cures, they don’t exist. We know, we have looked at all of them.

The good thing is that he was healthy before this happened. A healthy dog is better prepared for the treatment protocol than a dog that has been previously ill. You will have to prepare yourself to be a good home nurse and we can help you with that.

Dogs are amazing at their ability to recover. I guarantee you that his body is working hard to get better. I have seen some dogs I thought would never survive, not only recover but return to a normal life.

Right now the immunosuppressive drugs are working but the immune system is on high alert and it takes time for the drugs to work. The transfusions help buy time until they do work. I am not sure about the infection, I need to see the CBC’s and chem screens that were done. If you have some that were from when he was healthy I would also like to see those for comparison.

It is very difficult when we read something a vet has done that we don’t necessarily agree with. The most important thing for an owner is to be able to trust their vet and have a good relationship. We have in the past sometimes recommended that an owner try to find another vet.

In this case, however, right now I would recommend that you get a second opinion from Dr. Dodds. She has saved many of the dog’s lives on this forum, including both Vally ‘s Bingo and my Chance. As a vet she can evaluate your test results and situation and make appropriate recommendations. This is no different than if your child was ill and you got a second opinion. Any qualified vet should be quite comfortable that you would do this.

Go to this page:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/hemopetresources
Click on the picture that says Owner Consultation.
This will take you to Dr. Dodds website Hemopet.org and you can look over the Owner Consultation form. You can see there are two choices, we always recommend that owners chose the option that allows you to send attachments, so that she has more information to evaluate. Vally always says to put all your paperwork together into one file because otherwise you will only be allowed to upload one thing. Dr. Dodds knows you are upset, so keep your description concise. Tell her exactly how this occurred. I think you will find her extremely sympathetic about your situation.

Once she has looked over you paperwork and descriptions she will email you back with recommendations. If you have questions you can email her back. I think this will give you more professional advice. We can continue to answer your questions.

On the same page you clicked the link to her website you can also click on her treatment protocol: Dr Dodds IMHA Disease and Bone Marrow Failure. You can read how she treats this and compare that with the treatment you are on now. Click on the arrow in the upper right hand corner to open this full in your browser. Then you can save and print it.

On my worst days when Chance was so sick and I had no idea of what to do, I realized that I needed to set aside my grief and emotions and start studying how to help him. This would have been 2007. I have a medical background so I started to study a veterinary hematology textbook. My local vet was very receptive to my questions and then Dr. Dodds started helping. My vets were delighted to work with her. Some vets are not and I suspect your vet may be one of them.

It is important to control your grief and emotions when you are around your boy. He reads you like a book and will think he has done something wrong if you are upset. Be positive and happy with him at all times. Try to enjoy the time you have together so he knows how much you love him. Be with him as much as you can, but understand that right now he doesn’t feel well and may not respond the way you are used to. Allow him that.
my best, patrice

[Vally]

Mel, please don’t blame yourself. If only we all had 20/20 vision it would be wonderful. You did what you thought was necessary and best for your boy. You wanted him to be as healthy as possible and that’s why you had the boosters and the teeth done.

I did exactly the same with Bingo. I used to mark in my calender date the yearly date when shots were due so we wouldn’t miss them by even 1 day. Here in Australia, it’s only recently that they’ve changed the protocol and vets are now recommending shots every 3 years instead of yearly. I was the first person in my vet’s office to ask for titer testing, but again, this was all after Bingo had been diagnosed with AIHA and I had a lot more knowledge.

Bingo did survive it and lived several more years, so don’t give up hope yet. As Patrice said, a healthy dog copes better than a dog that has a lot of issues to start with.

Please do contact Dr Dodds, you will have a specialist working with you and she’s an amazing woman. You pay the one consultation fee and then you can write back with further questions and she always answers at no extra charge. She responds very quickly.

I think your boy should be on prednisone as well as cyclosporine (rather than azathioprine) as cyclosporine targets the actual cells doing the damage. It is more expensive though. Your vet can write you a prescription and you can have it filled at a pharmacy which is usually a cheaper way of doing it. The drugs take time. It took about 2 months before Bingo started showing progress.

I’m also thinking he should be on thyroid medication, whether he has a thyroid condition or not. It’s often recommended and helps to make red blood cells. I’m certain Dr Dodds would recommend this.

I am also nervous about the clavaseptin – I’ve read it’s targeted towards dental issues, and that’s likely why it’s been recommended. That’s why its important to work out where the infection is coming from.

Truly, I would do a consult with Dr Dodds. Give her a copy of the blood works and tell her what your boy is taking now.

By the way, what is his name?

I would be very happy to make up a medicine chart for you. Make sure you’re giving prendnisione, azathiprine with food. Prednisone is very hard on the stomach.

My best, Vallyl

[Mel]

Okay folks. Game face on. I will organize all Kingstons paperwork tomorrow when the vet office opens again. His next cbc is Wednesday morning so I will discuss the aspirin, switching the immune suppressant and getting him on thyroid meds. Should I ask this regardless or wait to see what wednesdays cbc says?

[Mel]

I just uploaded his most recent cbc in urgent advice

[Mel]

His rbc is up, count has risen to 27. Wbc has dropped but still high. I asked them to send me the report but haven’t received it yet. I spoke with the vet about the points you both have mentioned, she also was surprised when the hospital that did the transfusion send him him with the azathioprine rather than cyclosporine, and did some research. They say now the azathioprine is the go to med and studies now show better results with it. She is going to speak to an internal medicine vet about the asprin/heparin as she says she is hesitant to give asprin while he is on prednisone as it is counter indicated, as well as speak to them about a thyroid medication. She was very receptive and didn’t mind at all that I had questions. She said his bilirubin levels are on the cbcs that they send.

I do however think that even though I personally think that Kingston is reacting positively to the antibiotics, the vet still believes it is a tumour as he is still losing weight (in spite of eating like a fiend). He lost .2kg since sunday.

Cbc recheck sunday and if wbc continue to drop we will continue him on the antibiotics.

This is the worst rollercoaster ride ever.

[Vally]

Mel, I hate rollercoaster rides, and I know I’ll never be the same after Bingo. I am so much more paranoid than ever, but that’s just the way it is.

The weight loss is very likely due to muscle loss, and that’s what predisone does. Bingo started to look like a skeleton when on high doses. His head in particular, you could see the outline of his skull. It was terrible. Prednisone is a miserable drug, BUT we all have great respect for it, as it saves our dog’s lives.

I’m really glad your vet is receptive to outside ideas. So many just will not consider anything outside their own ideas, so I think you have a winner there.

Any rise in his RBC is GOOD. Good luck on Sunday.

Vally

[Mel]

Sorry to bother you so much Vall but I’m going to upload today’s cbc for you. I’ll send again the one from sunday as well. MCV MCH and MCHC are all high today and I dont think that’s good?

[Vally]

Mel, Patrice is the expert on this, but new red blood cells are often larger than normal, which gives a high MCV reading, so I don’t think this is a problem.

A high MCHC is often due to the way a sample is taken, if the cells a broken when collected. Again, I don’t think this is something bad.

Vally