My 13 yr old just diagnosed

[Terri]

My Dr. feels as though the high WBC is the IMHA .
On googling I found:

Leukemoid Reaction

Classically, in IMHA the stimulation of the bone marrow is so strong that even the white blood cells lines are stimulated. This leads to white blood cell counts that are spectacularly high.

Another search regarding platelets:

For reasons unknown, platelets can be mistaken by the immune system as invaders. When this happens, antibodies coat the platelets and the spleen’s phagocytes remove them in numbers up to 10 times greater than the normal platelet removal rate. The megakaryocytes in the bone marrow respond by getting larger and growing in numbers so that they may increase their production of platelets. The platelets produced under these circumstances tend to be larger and more effective than normal platelets and are called stress platelets. The bone marrow attempts to overcome the accelerated platelet destruction rate; unfortunately, as immune-mediated destruction is occurring, a platelet can expect to survive only one to two days in the circulation instead of its normal 8 to 12 days. If antibody levels are very high, a platelet may survive only minutes or hours after its release from the bone marrow and, making matters worse, the antibody coated platelets still circulating do not function normally.

In many cases, a cause for the immune-mediated thrombocytopenia is never found; however, in most cases a primary reaction in the immune system precedes the platelet destruction. Keep in mind that the immune system responds to the shapes of proteins present on a cell’s surface. These shapes are similar to ID cards. The immune system recognizes shapes defined as “self” and does not attack but when it sees a cell expressing protein shapes that are “non-self,” it will respond.

If the immune system is responding to a blood parasite, tumor, drug, or other cell type (as in lupus or immune-mediated hemolytic anemia), it will be producing antibodies against enemy shapes. Some of these shapes may, unfortunately, resemble some “self” shapes such as some of the shapes on the surface of the platelets. The platelets are then misidentified as the enemy and are attacked.

Evan’s syndrome is a combination of IMHA and ITP : Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura — a condition in which platelets are destroyed by an autoimmune process.

A more grim prognosis than IMHA alone.
Either way, the treatment is the same.
Maybe I will try again with the 15mg this morning.
Terri

[admin]

Hi Terri

You will ALWAYS be welcome – you must never feel bad about posting when you feel low. We understand exactly what you are going through & that’s what we are here for. Can’t wait to see the booties!

We are trying to give you the best advice too. Please, please drop the algae – it is worrying me. It may be making things worse & if it were me, I would stop giving it immediately. I appreciate that “others” (FB?) may think it’s wonderful, but there is no proof of that – remember that everyone would be using it & we would not need other harsh treatments if that was the case. We try very hard to give you factual information, not heresay on here. It is true that the pred & other immuno suppressants have side effects, but they do the job of saving so many of our dogs. It is the correct treatment protocol. I can see the pred scares you a lot – but it is the cornerstone of many treatments, especially so for IMHA.

Sorry to ask again, but what other tests have been done? Any x-rays, scans, blood smears?

I’ve just had a look at the blood test you sent & compared it to the 8th January, which was the most recent one I had. His HCT is coming up nicely & Koda is still pumping out the baby red cells, which is good. His hemoglobin is only slightly lower than normal – lovely! Your vet needs to get to the bottom of this high white cell count as Mary has said. Brigitte has rightly pointed out that there are many causes, so ask the vet for some help finding out what the cause is. His platelets are not in danger level, even though they have dropped a bit.

I agree that the pred dose is not high enough to suppress the immune system & I think you should discuss putting it up & maybe adding another longer acting immuno -suppressant with your vet & Dr Dodds if you are scared about the pred. Dr Dodds would be the best person to ask for advice, but is always very busy!

Let us know what’s happening.
Love & hugs
Sheena xxx

[admin]

Terri
Vally has raised a very important point about the arthritis. If Bingo had raised WBCs too, that is significant.
Sheena x

[Terri]

I discussed the high wbc with the vet and in my post above explained what she believes on that front.
Yes it could be antinflammatory or it could be ITP.
She could give me another antibiotic but I don’t know what’s safe to give and apparently neither does she. He was on a very strong one and it didn’t do anything.
P.S. No I didn’t hear it on Facebook.

[Terri]

Vally,
What did you give to bring down the WBC?

On the Kefir front…Yes it can be liquidy. Leave it sit until you see a tiny pockey of whey. Many of my batches were like that.
Refrigerating the batch for a few days often times will thicken it up a bit too.
Terri

[admin]

I did not see your post while I was writing my first message because we were typing at the same time. That sometimes happens on here Terri.

[Terri]

Typing at the same time. Don’t you hate that? Off to make booties.

[Tamara]

Hi Terri, I’m so glad to see that you’re still here and posting. And I’m really happy to see that Koda’s HCT is coming up! I know what you mean about being tied to the numbers — that’s how I was for the first few months of fighting this disease with Ashki. I have learned though, to pay more attention to how he feels, as this is as important if not more important than the numbers. The k9kidneys list says — treat the dog, not just the numbers. Which I wanted to mention, that list on yahoogroups is a wonderful resource for information for kidney disease, the moderators are incredibly knowledgeable, as knowledgeable or more so than many vets. They research and they have seen many many dogs go through kidney disease. Another good resource is dogaware.com — Patrice and I know the woman who writes it and she is very well-researched. She started learning when her own dog was diagnosed with kidney disease and dogaware is the result. You can get lots of good information there on health and diet, including supplement information, for many health issues including kidney disease and arthritis. Another very good resource is Consumer Labs — they test supplements for purity and safety. Contact me privately for help with that, one of the moderators can give you my email.

re. Dr. Dodds — I have heard from others that she can be terse, especially when she has a lot going on. However, she is incredibly generous with her time and energy, has been working in hematology for 50 (!) years, and embraces an integrated holistic/traditional approach, which I think would dovetail nicely with how you think. It might be worth reconsidering working with her. Our specialist called her yesterday morning to talk about Ashki and they spent a very long time on the phone going over everything. I’ll write that up at length in Ashki’s thread.
Thinking of you and that sweet, handsome boy and sending big hugs —
tamara and ashki